------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:30:40 -0600 From: Chris Warren Subject: Re: Card Advantage VS. Throughput Advantage You wrote [[my replies in here]]: [snip definition of Card Advantage decks] A player with a throughput deck may not necessarily have more cards in hand than his opponent. The difference in a throughput deck is not only to get as many cards into the hand as possible, but also to get as many cards *out* of the hand as possible. While card-advantage players often draw and draw and keep their hand full, using the advantage as a way to be able to react, the throughput player will draw and play almost immediately, taking the initiative. The thought [[We discussed this in e-mail about my G/R deck, and I tend to play this style of deck, which I feel is very effective. The more threats to deal with, the more difficult it is to get them all.]] here is to overwhelm the opponent with so many targets that there is no way to handle them all. White weenie horde decks usually are throughput decks, as are Goblin and Sligh decks. Big Green Creature and Red Blast decks are often designed in this style as well. Surprisingly, the new CounterPost deck (permission, Kjeldoran Outpost, and Sacred Mesa) is not a throughput deck even though it focuses on weenie creatures, because of the heavy amounts of permission involved. [[SOME counter-post decks may fall into the mold, depending on the level of permission. The difference is that they're creating multiple token-threats through one card (of course, that card is a bigger threat itself than any of the tokens.) If the counters are used basically to prevent the 3 or 4 mass-destruction effects that can kill a deck like this (usually mass-creature killers), it can fit the mold fairly well.]] A Necropotence deck, aside from being a card advantage deck, also has many of the elements of a throughput deck. It is single-color, allowing for speed, has fast mana in the form of the Dark Ritual, has little environment control, and the cards that it draws, it uses immediately. [[Agreed. Necro probably even moreso than Sligh, which is more concerned with board control. G/R attackers usually fall in the middle, dependent upon composition (mine's more necro-ish, playing with no artifact or enchantment control standard). WWs tend to be more on the Sligh side.]] This combination of these two styles can be devastating, as was shown by several months of Type II being dominated by Necropotence. Where card advantage decks are often full of environment control (Swords to Plowshares, Disenchant, permission, land destruction--specifically Armageddon, and some controlling spells -- Control Magic, Ray of Command, etc.), the throughput deck relies much less on environment control. There are two threads of thought in this [[Well, more precisely, they attempt to control the environment through overwhelming sente.]] particular concept: one, to force the opponent to spend his spells and precious mana defending against you, leaving little to do in his turn, and two, to overwhelm the opponent quickly, before his defenses are [[Which is a form of control itself.]] up. Drawing environment control can slow these decks down -- when a Disenchant is drawn instead of an Ernham Djinn, that's one more turn that a creature is not on the table harassing the opponent. The little bit of environment control that might get put into these particular decks is land destruction. In a throughput deck, destroying the opponent's throughput ability is often far more important than dealing with what actually gets put through. Some other environment control does make appearances, but it is far less common than it is in a card-advantage deck. [[Many-to-1 creature killers like the Artillery and Guildmages fit this mold, too... slowing opposition development, and when it's not there, attacking. Note that my G/R deck runs with one armageddon to reset the race.]] Throughput decks often also rely on fast mana. These decks contain Dark Rituals, or Llanowar Elves, or Orcish Lumberjacks, or Mana Vaults, and so on. In addition to that, their spells have low casting costs, so they can be on the table or aimed at the opponent quickly, again, before the opponent has the resources to deal with them. Often, their spells require only one colored mana, again, to make them quicker to cast, or the deck may be a monocolor deck, so that the wrong color is never drawn. Artifacts appear in a much larger quantity [[This is a VERY important point in these decks ... if you're waiting for mana, you're in deep doodie. You have to have lots of mana, or cheap threats, to start the pounding quickly.]] in these decks, because they can be cast with any color of mana, and so are a faster threat. They also make excellent target dummies for the opponent's environment control, because they are so fragile. As the opponent wastes the control on the artifacts, the throughput player has more flexibility with other cards. An interesting side [[This is shaky for me -- in decks like this, I've often played with NO enchantments and/or artifacts. This does two things -- wastes opposition draws, and gives more room for the primary type of attack.]] effect of this style of play is that throughput players will often play with cards that require them to sacrifice cards or permanents (Tinder Walls, Lumberjacks, Balduvian Hordes, Fireblasts, and so on), because the throughput player is willing to take a short-term loss for a quick overall gain. Cards that can only attack or are limited in [[Exactly. In decks like this, in a lot of cases, you can't get down all of your permanents anyway by the time your opponent is dead, so why not spend a couple cards?]] blocking are also trademarks of a throughput player (Erg Raiders, Juggernauts, Orcs, etc), because they are willing to trade the blocking ability for the quick damage these cards can do. Discard works surprisingly poorly on throughput decks. If they get a reasonably quick start, having an empty hand is never a problem, because the player will simply draw a card on his turn, then play it immediately. [[Very, very true. These decks are also run with very, very little dependence on combinations, if any. If your opponent does manage to spend early turns forcing you to discard your fast mana, say, all you've done is delay game start 5-7 turns. Again, you'll rarely play all the cards in your hand, so losing a few doesn't hurt that badly.]] Unless the opponent is playing with Racks (unusual these days), it is unlikely that the discarding effect will be at all useful. Against permission style decks or lock decks, however, only drawing one card a turn can be a problem. The point to overwhelming a player is to get out as much as the player can on a turn, every turn. If the player can only cast one thing, it is likely that the permission or lock opponent will have a way to deal with it. Thus, the throughput player also [[Hopefully not!!! The whole point is that your opponent can NOT continue to play you 1-1, because one of your threats is going to whack them mercilessly when they run out. Also, since they're on the defensive, every 1 turn lag in removing a permanent threat is one less turn the ultimate threat has to succeed.]] looks for some form of card gaining, though a slightly different one from the card advantage player. [[True to an extent -- it's very useful in bogged-down games, to make SURE you out-threat your opponent. I'm using Phyrexian Vaults in my deck, largely because it has 26 creatures. Works well so far.]] A throughput player may in fact automatically turn to the Howling Mine. In a Goblin or other weenie deck, the Mine is far more efficacious than any of the Tomes because precious mana is not spent [[I think the Howlers were largely best used by Stormbind decks, the reason being that it turned EVERY CARD IN HAND into a threat -- again, raising the My Threats/Your Defenses ratio, again with Stormbind itself being the biggest threat in the bunch.]] to power it. Sylvan Libraries and Diabolic Visions also are excellent cards for this style of play, because they allow the player to pull the more devastating cards more quickly. Rowen will shortly become a prized card for this playing style -- in a throughput deck, it often doesn't matter if the opponent knows what the player draws, as long as the player is getting more out than the opponent can handle. Land Tax [[I agree on that point. Rowen will be a winner for G attackers, especially ones WITHOUT GG/Blood Lust.]] was a wonderful card for this style of play -- it got the lands out of the library and onto the table very quickly -- extremely useful for a player who wants to cast a lot of spells, or a few expensive spells. Fastbond and now Summer Bloom will also perform a similar effect for the throughput player. [[I'm unsure on the general utility on summer bloom. I can see it being a very dead card after about turn 4, unless you've got a land-returners in your deck on purpose. But that doesn't really affect the larger picture.]] I hope I have sufficiently explained the difference between these two styles of play. If you have further comments to add, please direct them to me, and if I've missed something, please let me know. [[Nice post! I've largely commented regarding my current deck, but playing this kind of thing more than anything else, I think what I've said is generally true.]] [[--Chris]] ------------------------------