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<Tactics> Rhysem has joined this channel.
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<Tactics> Gravis waves.
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns waves.
<Tactics> Gravis says, "so, hows everyone doing?"
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns is doing fine.
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Yourself?"
<Tactics> Gravis says, "just a little tired, just woke up."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns hehs.
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns looks over Gravis' @doing and nods. "Yeah, thats how it is. Mess with me and die. ;)"
<Tactics> Gravis chuckles.
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "At least, thats how it has been so far..."
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<Tactics> Rhysem can tell spacewiz the right tactic that always works. :) Overwealming firepower.
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Endor is a case in point, the imperials needed more firepower. :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "Space tactics are actually fairly straightforward, the problem is that few people can think in 3D"
<Tactics> Strahd has connected.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "not to mention that the need for mind numbingly complex tactics is overrated."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Actually, if you're speaking ground combat, then tactics are a must. The TP that was hosted in an attempt to try and kill me, was only foiled because I actually had plans, and tactics to weed out the enemy."
<Tactics> Strahd has disconnected.
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Oh yeah, thrid rule of tactics: Only fight an enemy stupider than you. :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "in a sense, Rhysem, your Semi-serious comment about firepower is true. because it's a simpler and more direct, therefore easier to accomplish, and simpler to understand (if one hasn't a mind for that sort of thing) and yes, ground tactics are essential. but again the simpler ones tend to work just as well as the overthought ones."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "This means any computer game that isn't chess/othello. :)"
<Tactics> Rhysem hopes the new system somehow takes into account the commander's tactical ability. "I'm not sure how you'd code it, but..."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Good point. Even though I'm not a spacejock."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "well, back to your firepower comment, the enemy doesn't have to be "stupider", because a huge part of tactical thinking is situation. it IS possible to stop a tank with a toothpick, you jsut have to be inside the thing to poke the driver's eyes out."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Well, tactics in a sense, is being able to outsmart the enemy. You do it with wit, and  tactical knowledge. In the realworld, anyhow."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Unless you're MacGyver, then you don't need to be inside, but do require some duct tape which you have with you at all times. :)%r%rOn a related note, for regular combat (two people), do you think it'd be cool if you had a choice of tactics rather than just shooting them? (assume it's up close combat and weapons like lightsabers are available)"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Doh. Forgot no evaluation. :)"
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Tactics are always more fun than just trading fire."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "I agree."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Okay, then say for those tactics for attack/defend... do they all depend on what weapon you have, or should they depend on what armor you wear as well?"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "naturally they'd depend on all the variables, not just weaponry"
<Tactics> Hroth has connected.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "armor too, but also surroundings, are you in a bar, or on an empty street...?"
<Tactics> Hroth says, "test"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Pretend you're coding a combat system that's relativly simpleminded. :) And I'm talking every possible tactic (those that wouldn't be IC to do there I'm trusting people not to do -- no way to really code that.)."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "Tactics always need the variables accounted for."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns doesn't think tactics should be coded, period.
<Tactics> Hroth says, "especially range.  armor penalties +benefits.  and cover"
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "You can't code every single possiblity someone's character may come up with."
<Tactics> Rhysem means just tactics for a single attack to let the system decide who takes damage then you RP out your tactics to your hearts content (or you tell the system you just want to RP and it says, "okay")
<Tactics> Hroth nods to Sorico.  Even those three things I just listed off are a mess to deal with.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "That's where ppl are getting too serious, they want a combat code that can understand tactics...no. that's not what we need, the tactics could be outlined with a judge prior to combat, and then everything tactically could just be RP'd, leaving the attack/defense system extremely simple."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns ohs. "I was speaking large scale battle tactics."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "I'm not. Large scale is for judges. This is small scale, like two people."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "but even small scale tactics and combat should be for judges."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns says, "In that case... I think the system should be able to just account for damage. Let the players decide what they're doing, not the system."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "my point exactly general."
<Tactics> Hroth says, "well the problems are still the same, they ust go up anorder of magnitude on large scale.  Tactics takes advantage of a few different things.  One being psychological.  The 'surprise' of sudden;y facing an Imperial Star Destroyer may be enough to give the ISD such an advantage that the battle is over before it gebgun,  there's no way to code that."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns shrugs. "Not necessarily. If the two parties are responsible, and both consent to not having a judge present, -and- the judge or the staff of judges agree to that, then a judge isn't necessarily needed for small little saloon fights."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns nods.
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Okay, let me try to explain better since obviously my point hasn't gotten acrost..."
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns listens to Rhysem carefully.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "ok"
<Tactics> Hroth says, "I played on a vampire wush once that used 'advantage' based on agreed situation as outlined roughly by staff.  and willpower expenditure.  you could gain an 'advantage' on a contest roll by surprise, numbers, better weapons, all sorts of reasonable things.  I always wished other systems had that."
<Tactics> Hroth listens :)
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns is going to be semi-idle now.
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<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Given combat between two parties armed with either melee or ranged weapons: Should you just say '+attack target' or should you be able to '+attack target=slash' (for melee) or '+attack target=around_corner' (for a blaster)? Given you want the latter (so that the system pelting out damage gets it closer to correct -- even if the damage is adjustable by player consent), are all attack tactics a function of your weapon, or a function of weapon+armor?"
<Tactics> Rhysem hopes this time he's clear. :)
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Oh, addendum:"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "When you attack around_corner say, it'd make it very unlikely you'd get hurt (shooting around the corner), but also more likely you'll miss them. Similar thing for slash, cept your chance of getting hurt is a lot higher."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "on that note, rhys. Both weapon and armor, because RP wise, armor's not always the same strength all around, the breadtplate's stronger than the shin gusrd.. that sorta thing. not to mention movenent restriction."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "and shooting round a corner, your arms will be exposed more than your chest, but since arm guards are weaker than a breastplate, the damage could still be decent."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Okay. Further quesiton then. If you do shoot around the corner, does that knock off some percentage of your skill, or does it knock off a fixed value from your skill? (should someone with a low skill be able to shoot around a corener, or will they always miss?)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "fixed value, because it's a physical impairmant."
<Tactics> Hroth hmms.  I don't like the +attack  at all.   It's a redundant system after the +check.
<Tactics> Major-General, Sorico Vaghns comes back.
<Tactics> Rhysem prods Hroth and says, "Shush, already taken care of that. Assume for some reason you want to use +attack in whatever form."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "just because your skill is lower sdoesn't mean that the situation is different, if my car lost a wheel, and yours does too, but you're a better driver, who has a better chance of missing the utility pole?"
<Tactics> Hroth says, "Ah, Ok:)  I like +attack!"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Okay. Actually I was contemplating making it a linear function the more I think about it so you could have a multiplier to the skill and an adjustment. :)"
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<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "how do you mean?"
<Tactics> Hroth nods after Tymm a bit confuzzled:)
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<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Well, a percent of your stat/roll/whatever is just a multiplier to it right, and an adjustment is just a + or - value. So take your stat, call it x. Call the percent m, and the adjustment b, and the result you want y: y=mx+b Linear equation."
<Tactics> Rhysem is talking from a coding sense so is being confusing. :)
<Tactics> Ethan Knight says, "Hi? :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "ok.. that makes it much clearer."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Rather than having it just mx or x+b. :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "but what would dictate the adjustment?"
<Tactics> Inept adept Oran Kantos says, "b"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "no, oran i mean situationally, what says that b = (whatever value)"
<Tactics> Hroth says, "but why do you need both the multiplier /and/ the adjustment?"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "well the multiplier can be anything.. a previous injury perhaps. but something in the CURRENT situation throws tha adjustment, right Rhys?"
<Tactics> Rhysem isn't sure why you'd need both, cept maybe if the weapon was special (magically enchanted or cybernetically enhanced) and could target for you or something... "For b=whatever value, it's probably just a default for whatever tactic you take, like shooting around a way has b=-20 or whatnot."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "And of course the best tactic of all: +attack target=RP which says to the system "We'll RP the battle and adjust damage ourselves, please setup the attributes for hte damage and let us get on with it." :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "here's how i imagine it working. lets say you roll a 20 for blaster, but your gun-arm is still healing from a knife fight. so yer roll could be decreased by say 5, but you may have a situational advantage, like a clearer aim than normal, so that may gibe a positive adjustment of +2..."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "that 5 is percent..."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "That's getting too complex, and will just be +attack target=RP to do it. I'm trying to keep the non-RP-only combat simple enough for anyone to use, with a bit of tactics in it so it's better than just +attack who."
<Tactics> Rhysem isn't sure he should say tactics there but doesn't have a better word.
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Maybe 'styles of fighting'?"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "no, tactic is fine... because you're then RPing what happened, and that adds into the equation."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "the only problem there is going to be when a judge isn't present, what if one of the parties gets twinky and either starts to RP stuff that's ICly impossible for them, or jsut starts dissallowing fwhat the competitor does?"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "in order to be fair, that code would almost always need judges."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "The idea of the system was: 1) if you're mature enough to handle it with your opponent, do +attack them=RP by all means. 2) if not, the system has a standard +attack style with some variation so you're not totally stuck against a twink without tactical ability. 3) if there are still problems, go ooc and call a judge or use +defend twink=ignore to ignore their attacks, then get a judge (so they don't do damage to you while you're trying to get a judge."
<Tactics> Hroth says, "like claiming suddenly to dive behind a building.  for cover when one isn't there or wasn't there two poses before"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "oohhh.. i'm sory i thought you were gettnig rid of the standard +attack... well in that case, I think it would work very well"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Well, I am in a way. You either tell it you want to RP and it sets up the damages done to each party at 1 hp each, or you use +attack who[=style] to get some tactical advantage if there's a twink who you can't just RP it with. If it's worse than that, it's time for a judge. :)"
<Tactics> Hroth says, "automated systems like this worry me."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "systems are harder to twink than straight RP, I'm trying to structure it twoards good RPers and give them a fallback if they need it. The system also gives twniks a leg up thinking "hey maybe if I was !twink I could actually RP it and take any tactic I want not just the predefined ones.""
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Er, fallback if confronted with a twink."
<Tactics> Vilkata has connected.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "i knew whatcha meant. but yeah, i definitely like it that way..."
<Tactics> Rhysem thought you did but wasn't sure anyone else had. :) "I could be just lalla tho cause classes ended yesterday and my mind's on break. :)"
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "unrelated question for ya Rhys."
<Tactics> Vilkata says, "Hey, Rhys."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "'k... ?"
<Tactics> Rhysem waves to Vil
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "is there a way to program a Hyper jump without going to a nav buoy?"
<Tactics> Vilkata says, "Not in the system currently in place."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Not as far as I know."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "I think you probably could pretty easialy make more spots to store jumps in, but not to do the raw calculations."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "thanx.. poor Gras.. i think he's stuck somewhere in deep space.. heh heh"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Oh, wait. You mean microjumps?"
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Those you can compute... I don't remember the command but it's in the hyperspace helpfile."
<Tactics> Hroth says, "anyway.  I gotta get going. Good luck rhysem."
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "micros i know about.. i think he's lookin for a quick jump back to an inhabited system..."
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "Oh. Nope, other than jump to the bouy then otu elsewhere"
<Tactics> Vilkata says, "Nope. Gotta calc an inter-system jump via Nav Buoy."
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<Tactics> Vilkata wonders if anyone has anything relevant to the channel to talk about? :)
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "well, you just missed a rather large discussion relavent to the topic, unfortunately."
<Tactics> Vilkata says, "What was the topic of this particular argument, er, disucssion?"
<Tactics> Hroth has disconnected.
<Tactics> Vilkata taps his foot expectantly.
<Tactics> Tymm K'Staan says, "it started as a general discussion on tactics, and moved into rhysem's ideas for a new combat system"
<Tactics> Vilkata ohs. Interesting. "What all was said?"
<Tactics> Rhysem suppoes he could whip out a log of it all... ;)
<Tactics> Rhysem says, "If you really want to see the whole thing. :P"
<Tactics> Vilkata says, "Please do, Rhysem. :)"
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